I wasn't there, but a friend who was shared about a conversation he had around the table with a number of colleagues who were concerned about how to take care of the somewhat battle-scarred pastors and churches that will be coming into the denomination. The PC(USA) has been something of a war zone for years now, I'm sorry to say. I'm sure it will be a relief for many who make the move to become part of a group as relatively peaceful and united as the EPC. But some may be very excited and energized by the coming changes, while others may be defensive, slow to trust, feel conflicting loyalties, and be low on energy and hope for moving ahead.
And yeah, all this sounds strangely familiar. My friends and I have faced similar challenges in the last year or two with our ministry's significant change of direction, merger, new mission, decline, crisis, failure, rescue, and rebirth. Perhaps the EPC leaders building relationships with incoming congregations will feel what I suspect Pioneers leaders felt taking on former Caleb Project and ACMC staff, as they saw what they were getting: man, these guys have a lot to offer, but for now, they are kind of a mess!
So. I guess I know how to pray, eh?
Here's the official statement from New Wineskins. (http://www.newwineconvo.com)
EPC Creates NW Presbytery
June 22, 2007
We offer our heartfelt and profound thanks to the Evangelical Presbyterian Church for creating a New Wineskins Transitional Presbytery. It has been quite a week in Denver. We were overwhelmed with the gospel hospitality we felt in their midst. The encouragement and affirmation, the sense of kinship in Christ were all like cool winds on our souls. We witnessed at this Assembly a wonderful graciousness of discourse, a Christ-centered passion in worship, and a courageous openness to God's future.
We are humbled that the EPC has opened its arms to the vision we share. We agree profoundly that God is calling us to an expression of his church based on shared essentials of the faith, clear ethical imperatives, and a mission-serving polity.
We know that many of the New Wineskins churches are called to remain in the PCUSA, living out this vision right where they are. We also know that many of our churches are being called out, and we express our deepest gratitude for the open arms into which they will be received.
We pray that such a spirit of graciousness as we have felt will blow through our denomination as well.
In Christ,
Dean Weaver and Gerrit Dawson
4 comments:
well said!
but honestly, nothing more than loving colleagues, united around the singular supremecy of the Lordship of Jesus Christ, and His mission in the the world, won't cure.
we'll still be a mess... but, then- aren't we all?
maranatha, LORD Jesus.
dm
Hmm, you ask a lot, Dave! "loving colleagues united around the singular supremacy of the Lordship of Jesus Christ and His mission in the world." How many people have THAT kind of environment in which to heal? Guess we shouldn't take it for granted when we do!
Yes - still and always we're broken, a mess, and that's just the context in which all of life is lived. For now. But not forever!
Yes: Come, Lord Jesus.
"I'm sure it will be a relief for many who make the move to become part of a group as relatively peaceful and united as the EPC."
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A couple of points here - I have looked at your profile Marti and I see that you are a young woman. I attended a woman's ordination conference this summer - part of it was to review the powerful history and struggle women went through in the struggle to achieve ordination.
I am still puzzled by the churches who think this is such a great movement since the EPC has 2 ordained women and 75% of sessions have no women. This means that the entire EPC culture has little interest in this topic which I find shocking and disrespectful of God's creation.
One of the New Wineskin's initiatives is to address the issue of women's participation in the EPC. I disagree with your statment that this is "peaceful"; I suspect that the male dominated system in the EPC may make a few gestures to include women but the underlying attitudes will remain unchanged. Women will serve as the primary clean-up kitchen crew.
In order to gain any ground on this issue, the New Wineskins will need to make this a real issue which will result in a lot of strife. I expect that the EPC will exert resistance on this issue and that the New Wineskins will not push this since they are newly alighed with the EPC. Women have suffered so much - if you review the history of women's ordination you will see this. One of the things covered in the seminar I attended is how uneducated most women are about women's history. Why we need to go through this "again" in the EPC is very sad. I would like to see male dominated denominations such as EPC keep their sexist opinions to themselves and not infect the rest of Presbyterianism.
There are some posts out there that say things like "I am lukewarm on the issue of women's ordination". This shows the apathey that people have towards God's own creation - the critical and unique contribution women can make in Christianity and Presbyterianism.
I feel that the driving issue in leaving the PCUSA is homophobia - people are so terrified that a gay/lesbian might enter their church. Although I feel that homosexuality is a sin, the sin of beating women does not prevent men from being ordained. Churches do not realize that sin is everywhere and that gay/lesbian people are everywhere including people that have not come out in the EPC.
Marti, I suspect you have not been a member of a church that has had one of these "votes". Most conservative Presbyterian info online portrays this as a Pentecost experience. Lost is the person who does not agree and needs to look for a new church and the extreme rejection and suffering these individual and their family goes through while others are celebrating in an all consuming "Pentecost".
Hi Anonymous!
I think I would still stand by my statement that the EPC - at whatever cost, and whatever its failings might be - is relatively united and peaceful. And it is, as I'd said in a previous post, more 'open' on the issue of women's ordination that I for one had supposed.
Open enough? Enough as I'd like? As Open as they may say/think they are? A safe environment for the nurture and equipping of women leaders? No, probably not.
As I mentioned, the church I attend has made a decision not to ordain women as elders or pastors. In fact, the church was first formed - came out of the PCUSA - on this issue. I do think they are mistaken on this. They've lightened up a bit over the years. In fact, this Sunday we DID have a woman preaching, from the stage, Sunday morning. The sermon time was split between three seminarians who are part of the church and one was my friend Carol. My ears are perked up to see if what backlash there might be from this, positive or negative. It's a pity this might be questioned, I agree. And I believe my pastor would as well. I don't know how the 'old guard' would / will respond.
Yes, I do think it's a tragedy that the church limits itself to male leaders; I miss my PCUSA church with its more representative government! Don't know how many times I've been frustrated when my church's elders have done things (or not done things) that, probably if they had some women around, would have turned out differently... how could they be so blind to ______, or ______?
But you are right - it's been more than 10 years since I was part of a church struggling through these issues. I'm an interested outsider. I blog because I'm interested, not because I'm in some kind of position of authority to speak about these things.
In terms of the history of the ordination of women, you're right, most people are pretty ignorant on the topic, and looking at it more closely might be very helpful.
I learned quite a bit this spring when I read Ruth Tucker's 'Daughters of the Church.' She points out how regularly through history women have been the ones to pioneer, to start things, and led as a matter of course until whatever they were leading became institutionalized and they were pushed aside...
Maybe you noticed my sometimes-boyfriend Tom in one of his comments trying to discourage my interest in this topic, as if being an advocate for women in ministry is a waste of time. He doesn't get it. Not unusual, I suppose. But distressing, isn't it, to have anyone tell us what we should and shouldn't care about, especially when it seems tied to what we 'as women' or 'as Christian women' should and shouldn't care about?
Well, not all the New Wineskins / Confessing Churches / conservatives / evangelicals in the PC(USA) will make the move to the EPC, and this may be one big reason why.
I guess I =would= agree with Tom in that I'd like to see churches aligned / realigned so that we don't spend so much time at war with one another. There are several ways conflicts can be resolved: a group of people can come to agreement, they can agree to disagree, or they can go separate ways. Time will tell how it all works out in this case.
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